Here is the major link between the Rougemonts and Knights Templar.
Jon Presco
Jon Presco <braskewitz <at> yahoo.com>
Subject: The Knight Templar Family of Dramelay, De La Roche, and Rougemont
Newsgroups: gmane.culture.templar.rosemont
Date: Saturday 18th November 2006 18:28:15 UTC (over 10 years ago)
The Knight Templar Family of Dramelay, De La Roche, and Rougemont (Images: Knight Templar chapel at Dramelay/Tramelay) http://tinyurl.com/y3yjyf The families of Dramelay/Tramelay, De La Roche, and Rougemont are joined together by many marriages. They are linked with the Shroud of Turin and the Knights Templar. In the family tree above we can more clearly see how they are the premiere Templar family. It is highly likely Denis de Rougemont descends from this family. http://rougeknights.blogspot.com "Fromond de Dramelay, sn de Neufchatel, etc, fl 1171/1213; m. N de Rougemont" "Dunod de Charnage traced the Shroud to archbishop Amedée de Tramelay. Babinet's interpretation is that, fearing to retain it, Amedée turned it over to the Templars, an order independent and secret, created for the protection of the holy places." http://tinyurl.com/tfzkm http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jamesdow/s072/f551382.htm http://gilles.maillet.free.fr/histoire/genealogie_bourgogne/famille_d ramelay.htm "In 1265, de Molay was received into the Order at Beaune by Humbert de Pairaud, Visitor of France and England, and by French Master Amaury de la Roche. Geoffroi of Charny, preceptor of commanderies of the Templar Order in NormandyThis article is about the Templar who was burned at the stake in 1314 along with Jacques de Molay in 1314 Geoffroi was accepted into the Order of Knights Templar (at the age of "sixteen, seventeen or thereabouts") by brother Amaury de la Roche, the preceptor of France in Étamps of the diocese of Sens. Present at the ceremony were brother Jean le Franceys, preceptor of Pédenac.Templar commandery For his nephew who died in 1356, see Geoffroi de Charny. Geoffrey de Charney, or Geoffroy de Charnay, was Preceptor of Normandy for the Knights Templar.De Charney's nephew was Geoffroi de Charny, whose widow first put the Shroud of Turin on display later in the 14th century. "Babinet seems to urge a Templar acquisition, not as early as 1139, but later, in 1205, via Othon de la Roche, Duke of Athens, who sent the relic to Besançon's Archbishop Amedée de Tramelay (1192-1219). This latter was related to Bernard de Tramelay, fourth Templar Master (1152-53)The head of a man adored by the Templars, so similar to the Mandylion/Shroud of Christ, was stolen from Constantinople by the Crusaders and then disappeared from Athens. Othon, duke of Athens, never returned it but in the château de Ray at Rigney, near Besançon, is a small wooden chest whose dimensions would be right for the Shroud folded in 96 layers . Bergeret (CIELT Rome Symposium 1993) thought it was the chest used to transport the Shroud from Athens to France. Babinet has earlier agreed with French scholar Jean Longnon (Journ. des savants, Jan-Mar 1973, 61-80) that Othon was never wed to Isabel/Elisabeth de Ray, but rather to Isabel/Elisabeth de Chappes. This would indicate that his title, seigneur de Ray, was paternally and not maritally inherited. It also signals that Jeanne de Vergy, second wife of Geoffrey I de Charny, was not descendent of Othon de la Roche, Duke of Athens and onetime possessor of the Shroud." "Dunod de Charnage traced the Shroud to archbishop Amedée de Tramelay. Babinet's interpretation is that, fearing to retain it, Amedée turned it over to the Templars, an order independent and secret, created for the protection of the holy places. The possession by the Templars is the only explanation plausible and coherent for the 150 years from 1205 to 1355. Oddly and unnecessarily, Babinet exonerates the Templars of heresy. Also included in this publication is an article by Dorothy Crispino 'The Shroud at Besançon' which very authoritatively weighs in the balance (and finds wanting), theories that the Shroud may have been at Besançon before its emergence in Lirey in the mid-1950s. Brother Geoffroy de ChanayIt had been born about 1251.About 1269, it was received in the order with approximately 17 or 18 years.Geoffroy de Chanay: Frater Gaudfridus de Charnaio alias Charneio. Templier receipt in Etampes, by Amaury of the Rock in the presence of Jean brother Franceys, tutor of Paris. http://gilles.maillet.free.fr/histoire/famille_bourgogne/famille_dram elay.htm http://tinyurl.com/ycfnto http://tinyurl.com/y9crnx http://tinyurl.com/spaav http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramelay http://gilles.maillet.free.fr/histoire/famille_bourgogne/famille_neuf chatel.htm http://www.shroud.com/bsts4609.htm Sires de Neufchatel-en-Bourgogne Fromond de Dramelay; m.N de Montfaucon, Dame de Neufchatel; They probably were parents of two brothers: A1. Hugues I "le Connetable", Constable to Ct Gerard of Burgundy B1. Guy de Drameley B2. Hugues II de Dramelay; he and his brother were ancestors of the Sires de Dramelay, Jura A2. Humbert de Dramelay, sn de Neufchatel, etc; m.NN B1. Fromond de Dramelay, sn de Neufchatel, etc, fl 1171/1213; m. N de Rougemont C1. Thiebaut I de Neufchatel, sn de Neufchatel, Vcte de Baume, Sire de Jonvelle, etc, +1268, bur Lieucroissant; 1m: Petronille, Dame de la Ferte-Sous-Vadans; 2m: 1238 Elizabeth, Dame de Jonvelle; all kids were by 1m. D1. Richard de Neufchatel, sn de Clemont, +1259, bur Lieucroissant; m.before 1255 Marguerite de Montfaucon G2. Eudes de la Roche, sn de Chatillon, test 1353, bur St-Hippolyte; m.Jeanne de Frolois, Dame de Marigny H1. Marguerite, Dame de Marigny, +1378; 1m: Guillaume de Thoire (+1345); 2m: Jacques de Vienne, sn de Longvy (+1372) G3. Androin, Cardinal, Abbot of Cluny, +of the plague at Viterbo 1369 G4. Achillande; m.Vauthier de Vienne, sn de Mirebel (+1344) F2. Etiennette, Dame de Soye, +ca 1305; m.before 1299 Aime de Ray E2. Etiennette, Abbess of St.Jean, Autun, +1278 E3. Bonne, Abbess of St.Jean, Autun, +1294 D2. Jacques de la Roche, Bp of Autun D3. Hue de la Roche, a canon in Autun 1286 D4. Nicole de la Roche, Abbess of Baume-les-Dames 1268/71 D5. Marguerite de la Roche; m.Richard de Gleres-Montjoie B3. Amedee de Dramelay, Archbishop of Besancon, +1220 Lords: They go down from the sovereign Counts of Burgundy. Bernard de Dramelay: (1134) figure at the court of Renaud III of Bourgogne.Il goes to the crusade préchée by Saint-Bernard in 1147, fights with the head office of Ascalon, and obtains the distinguished title of Large Maitre of the Temple of Midsummer's Day of Jerusalem. Hugues de Dramelay: (1175) He is constable of the county of Burgundy. Amédée de Dramelay becomes Archevêque of Besancon at the end of the XII eme century. Put to the test by its political options, it was locked up with the Castle of Montbeliard a few months in 1199. Returned to freedom, it goes back on its seat, but the count Etienne of Burgundy often devastated his fields. Wearied troubles which its canons caused him, it left for the crusade in 1218 and died out of Holy Land in 1220. In him the family of the Lords de Dramelay died out. Etienne of Burgundy, owner of Baronnie d' Orgelet, joins together Baronnie de Dramelay with his fields. The descendants of Guillaume de Dramelay, nephew of Bernard, do not preserve any right on this ground. http://servimedia.ifrance.com/jura43.html de DRAMELAY, Fromont II Sexe: Masculin Naissance : vers 1145 Décès : vers 1213 Occupation : seigneurParents: Père: de DRAMELAY, Humbert Famille: Conjoint: de ROUGEMONT, N Sexe: Féminin Naissance : vers 1170 Parents: Père: de ROUGEMONT, Thibaut Mère: N, Alaïs Enfant(s): de NEUFCHATEL, Thibault Ier de NEUFCHATEL, Thibault Ier Sexe: Masculin Naissance : vers 1195 Décès : 1268 Inhumation : 1268 à Geney,25250,Doubs,Franche- Comté,FRANCE Occupation : vicomteParents: Père: de DRAMELAY, Fromont II Mère: de ROUGEMONT, N Famille: Mariage: 1238 Conjoint: de JONVELLE, Élisabeth Sexe: Féminin Naissance : vers 1215 Décès : après 1268 Famille: Conjoint: de DAMPIERRE, Pétronille (Perrette) Enfant(s): de NEUFCHATEL, Thibault II de NEUFCHATEL, Richard de NEUFCHATEL, Eudes Sexe: Masculin Naissance : vers 1220 Décès : vers 1280 Occupation : doyen http://www.genealogie33.org/pduc/dat83.htm#6 http://www.genealogie33.org/pduc/dat816.htm http://ville.pdr.free.fr/histoire/sonhistoire.htm http://gilles.maillet.free.fr/histoire/famille_bourgogne/famille_neuf chatel.htm Bernard de Tremelay Bernard de Tramelay (died August 16, 1153) was the fourth Grand Master of the Knights Templar. He was born in the castle of Tramelay near Saint-Claude in the Jura. According to Du Cange, he succeeded a certain Hugues as Master of the Temple, although this Hugues is otherwise unknown. He was elected Grand Master in June of 1151, after the abdication of Everard des Barres, who had returned to France following the Second Crusade. King Baldwin III of Jerusalem granted him the ruined city of Gaza, which Bernard rebuilt for the Templars. In 1153 the Templars participated in the Battle of Ascalon, a fortress at that time controlled by Egypt. The Templars constructed a siege tower, which was burned down by the Egyptian soldiers inside Ascalon. The wind caught the flames and part of the walls of Ascalon burned down as well. According to William of Tyre, knights of the Order rushed through the breach without Baldwin's knowledge while Bernard prevented other crusaders from following, as he did not want to share the spoils of the city with the king. Bernard and about forty of his Templars were killed by the larger Egyptian garrison. Their bodies were displayed on the ramparts and their heads were sent to the sultan. In a differing account by a Damascene chronicler in the city, the breach of the wall is mentioned as a pre-cursor to the fall of the city; he makes no mention of the incident with the Templars. Regardless of which account is believed, Bernard was killed during the fighting. A few days later, Baldwin captured the fortress; shortly thereafter, the Templars elected André de Montbard as their Grand Master. http://www.answers.com/topic/bernard-de-tremelay There are two theories that relate to the Templars having been involved with the Shroud, one, which would support the authenticity of the Shroud and another, which would refute it. In 1204 the Crusaders sacked the city of Constantinople. Among them were the Knights Templar, whom some scholars contend took the Burial shroud of Jesus from the city. To support this theory, author Ian Wilson who wrote the book "The Shroud of Turin: Burial Cloth Of Jesus?" makes the claim that the head that the Templars were accused of worshipping was none other than that of Jesus. His belief is that the Shroud when folded depicted the head of Christ and was referred to as the "Mandylion." There is a painted panel at Templecombe in England that shows a bearded head like that, which is depicted on the Mandylion. In their two books, "The Hiram Key" and "The Second Messiah," authors Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas paint a contrasting picture to the Mandylion theory. The authors theorize that the image on the Shroud of Turin is in fact that of the last Grand Master of the order, Jacques de Molay, who was tortured some months before his execution in 1307. The image on the shroud certainly does fit the description of De Molay as depicted in medieval wood cuts, a long nose, hair shoulder length and parted in the center, a full beard that forked at its base, not to mention the six-foot frame. De Molay was said to be quite tall. However, many have criticized the theory on the basis that the Templar rule of order forbade the Templars from growing their hair long. What critics of the theory overlook is that during DeMolay's seven years in prison it is highly unlikely that he would have been afforded such luxuries as good grooming. Knight and Lomas claim that the shroud figured in the Templars rituals of figurative resurrection and that DeMolay's tortured body was wrapped in a shroud, which the Templars kept after his death. Lomas and Knight further believe that lactic acid and blood from DeMolay's tortured body mixed with frankincense (used to whiten the cloth) etching his image into the shroud. The PEDIGREE of Humbert de DRAMELAY Seigneur de NEUFCHATEL Poss. HM George I's 18-Great Grandfather. HRH Charles's 23- Great Grandfather. Louis XVII's 20-Great Grandfather. HM Juan Carlos' 23-Great Grandfather. Wife/Partner: (missing) Children: Fromond de DRAMELAY ; Alix de DRAMELAY -- Fromond de DRAMELAY - Humbert de DRAMELAY -- (Miss) de MONTFAUCON His 3-Great Grandchildren: Thibaut IV de NEUFCHATEL-BLAMONT ; Jean de TILCHATEL (TIL-CHATEL) The PEDIGREE ofFromond de DRAMELAY Born: ? Died: abt. 1213 Poss. HM George I's 18-Great Uncle. HRH Charles's 22-Great Grandfather. Louis XVII's 19-Great Grandfather. HM Juan Carlos' 22-Great Grandfather. Wife/Partner: (Miss) de ROUGEMONT Child: Thibaut I de NEUFCHATEL / -- Fromond de DRAMELAY / -- Humbert de DRAMELAY / \ -- (Miss) de MONTFAUCON - Fromond de DRAMELAY http://www.orgelet.com/histoire/paix.htm http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramelay http://gilles.maillet.free.fr/histoire/famille_bourgogne/famille_neuf chatel.htm http://tinyurl.com/y6mbww http://article.gmane.org/gmane.culture.templar.rosemont/1442
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